Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove is a licensed clinical psychologist, an accomplished radio and television interviewer, and author of an encyclopedic volume of consciousness studies, The Roots of Consciousness (available via his website at www.mishlove.com). Dr. Mishlove also interviewed Stan Tenen in 1992, and again in 1999, on his television series Thinking Allowed, syndicated on many PBS television stations. VIdeotapes of these television interviews, The Origin of Sacred Alphabets (1992, 30 minutes) and The Geometry of Language (1999, 60 minutes) are available from Meru Foundation at www.meetingtent.com.
Stan Tenen is Director of Research for Meru Foundation. Note: References during the live broadcast to Mr. Tenen as President of Meru Foundation have been corrected in this transcription.
Jeffrey Mishlove: Hello, everybody out in Wisdomland. We're
back again for another week of Virtual College broadcasting live
from Marin County, California at the base of Mt. San Pedro. Many
people don't know where Mt. San Pedro is, most people have never
heard of Mt. San Pedro. It's actually a State Park here in
California, which is based on that mountain, China Camp State Park.
And we're right at the base of it, it's a lovely location right
between the San Francisco Bay and the Pacific Ocean. And we're
broadcasting on the Internet, on the C-Band Satellite, out to the
What we're attempting to create here on Wisdom College is the kind
of experience that many of us wished we could have had in college,
and were never able to get that. And I speak as a person who spent
15 years inside of big state universities in Wisconsin and
During that entire time, I found that every Professor who was
really turned on, passionate about his or her own work, either quit
or got fired, almost inevitably. And my goal, with this program, is
to bring to the airwaves, bring to our listeners around the world,
those kinds of people -- people who are so passionate about their
work, they will dedicate their lives to it. People who see deeply.
People who are willing to work in between disciplines. People who
make the realm of the intellect come alive.
And with me tonight, I have Stan Tenen, who is the Director of Fesearch
for the Meru
Foundation. Stan is based in Sharon, Massachusetts, but
he's here with me now in California, and Stan has explored,
throughout his professional career, the origins of sacred language,
particularly the Hebrew language. He has a background in physics
and mathematics and he has applied that background -- and also I
should say, in particular, geometry, to looking at very shape of
the letters of the Hebrew alphabet, to determine in sort of a
Pythagorean sense, what it is that those shapes are telling us.
JM: So, Stan, it's a pleasure to have you with me on Virtual
Stan Tenen: It's a pleasure to be here, Jeffrey. Thank you
for inviting me. This is a very exciting venture, I think.
Actually, I had an opportunity to teach once. When I first started
this work in California, about almost twenty years ago now, we went
down to U.C. Santa Cruz and talked to Ralph Abraham, the
mathematician, and I think he was still Chairman of the Math
Department at the time, and I asked him if maybe there was a way he
could get me a job, and he probably could have, but he dissuaded
me. He said there just was no place in the university system for
this kind of research. And as I've learned over the years, he was
JM: I think that's an unfortunate situation, but times are
changing and we hope eventually, Stan, to be able to offer academic
credit to people listening to this radio program, so that people
can study cutting-edge ideas such as your own.
ST: Well, that would be very useful, because there are many
different researches that don't fit so easily into the conventional
curricula, and that may make the faculty uneasy. That needs to be
JM: Interdisciplinary research of all kinds has a hard time.
I know in your field you're applying mathematics and physics and
metaphysical geometry to the study of ancient languages,
ST: And that makes everybody unhappy, because -- Well, I
might as well start off, we're going to talk about discovery of
some basic principles in the Hebrew, and in all likelihood, in the
Greek and Arabic alphabet. But this of course relates to religious
traditions and sacred texts, so I often tell people, my Jewish
friends think this work is much too Christian. My Christian friends
think it's much too Jewish, my religious friends think there's much
too much math in it, and my mathematically-inclined friends think
it's much too religious.
It doesn't fit in any one place. And the normal academic custodians
of this work, the people who do this sort of work, who've evolved
to do it, tend to be experts in History, in Languages, in English
and Poetry, in the Belles-Arts and Letters. They tend not to be
interested in geometry, and so they've missed this, in my opinion,
and if I try to carry it back to them, it only puts them in an
As honest scholars, they don't want to evaluate something they are
not familiar with, because how are they going to know the quality
of the work when they're not really comfortable with the ideas?
With geometry, in this case.
So when you're in a niche that falls between disciplines, it's very
hard to satisfy any of them.
JM: But actually, you're in a very ancient tradition, and
that's the irony, that because you're in effect studying, in
effect, Sacred Geometry.
ST: That's right.
JM: The study of Sacred Geometry goes back to Plato, it goes
back to Pythagoras, it goes back to --
ST: -- It goes back to Egypt, it goes back even earlier than
JM: It's not as if you've made this up out of whole cloth.
You're part of a long tradition.
ST: No, not at all. In fact, to the extent that I may be
making this up, I'm probably off target. I believe that what I
found is so extraordinarily elegant, that I don't want to add or
take from it.
I think that the philosophers who worked on this in a wide range of
traditions, did an excellent job. An astonishing job. And to some
extent, what I'm trying to do is demonstrate how they could have
done it. Because part of bringing this back into public view is to
make it plausible. If what I find requires modern Projective
Geometry that we know was not known in the ancient world, then I'm
probably making it up, because it's not plausible.
But if I can show that techniques and materials and tools were
available in the ancient world, and could tackle these problems,
then it's quite plausible that they were used. And so, what I'm
finding has a place, and then it can be brought into the modern
world, it can be made to be understood today and it can be true to
what was understood initially -- what was the intent.
JM: Let's talk about how you got started, Stan.
ST: Yeah, we've been dancing all around. I think we better
tell the audience what this is about!
Jeffrey Mishlove: We're back. This is Jeffrey Mishlove, and with
Stan Tenen, Director of Research for the Meru Foundation, based in the
area. Stan was describing an epiphany he had back in the 1960's
when he began to look and see if he could spot geometrical,
mathematical patterns in the Hebrew letters. Let's go right to
Stan Tenen: Initially, I didn't know what it was. All I
very quickly, when I spotted this, is, if it were already known and
explained, it was probably, that it was probably not --
JM: And what were you looking at?
ST: I was looking at the very beginning of the Hebrew text
of Genesis, and because I knew the alphabet, I was looking at the letters, and not at the words.
ST: " --Elokim et ha shemayim v'et ha-aretz." "In the
Beginning, God created the heaven and the earth." I asked, and
eventually somebody told me, it must be Kabbalah. I'd never heard
of Kabbalah. I bought out the bookstores, ultimately 2 or 3,000
volumes over ten years. I read everything in sight.
Ten years later, they're repeating the "Prisoner" show on KQED and
PBS, we're living in San Francisco, I hold up the numerical
sequence equivalent to the letters at the beginning of Genesis, on
the air, tell the audience it's like the Arecibo message for outer
space, and that there's some meaning to it, and I need help in
cracking this thing.
People called in with suggestions. I tried the suggestions and it
It turns out, if you count out the Hebrew letters by threes -- not
in binary but in trinary -- there's 27 letters in the full
alphabet, 27 is three-cubed -- and you can lay all the letters out
in and on a little Rubik Cube, with each letter being given its
position by its base-three count in the alphabet.
So the Aleph, even though the normal numerical count is One, in my
geometric system, it becomes Zero. The Aleph sits at the Origin,
and then the Bet's at 0-0-1, and then the Gimel, "C", would be
0-0-2, and the next letter[, Dalet,] would be 0-1-0, cause you're
counting by threes, [and so] you get coordinates for each of the
counts. And each letter has a position on this Rubik Cube, and then
an amazing thing happens. I did something trivial, I tried
everything complicated and none of that worked, and of course it
shouldn't have, because none of that would have been known in the
Ancient World. But I did something trivial.
I simply took my Rubik Cube, my Alphabet Cube, and cut away all the
letters that didn't occur in the first Verse. And what I was left
with was a symmetrical form. And that shouldn't have happened by
And so then I investigated to see what this symmetrical form might
mean. And it took a number of years additionally to figure out how
to make use of this data. I ended up doing the simplest possible
thing, something that everyone has done.
You know how you make a paper model, a paper airplane, a paper
doll? It's pre-set, it's got tabs and slots. You put Tab-A in
Slot-A and Tab-B in Slot-B. And the piece of paper folds up into
the intended form.
Well, I wrote the letters of the text of Genesis out, letter by
letter, one each on a bead on a bead-chain, loose on the chain but
locked in order, curled the chain up, and slid the beads around,
always maintaining the order of the text, until the same letters
were paired with each other, like Tab-A in Slot-A, or letters in
symmetrical positions on my little Rubik Cube. And when I did that,
I could account for all the letters, in a pattern that was very
strong, very repetitive, so strong that if any letter were to have
been miscopied or added or subtracted over the centuries, it would
stick out like a sore thumb and you could correct for it.
That's how strong the pattern was.
Now, I knew that there was patterning in the beginning of the
Hebrew text of Genesis. But I didn't know if it was an accident!
Here I was working for ten years, you know, if you work that long,
you can fool yourself. You can find patterns in almost anything. So
I had to know if this was just a little preamble, an accident, or a
coincidence, or if it went on through the text.
And I did two basic tests and a number of other minor tests, to
assure myself that the coding continued. Even though I didn't have
the computing power to go much further than the very beginning.
I made a prediction that there would be a certain kind of
fold-point in the text and I counted the letters out manually (I
didn't have a data-base, didn't have a computer) and found the
fold-point right where I predicted it. And I said, "Wow!"
JM: What is a "fold-point"?
[Extraneous material deleted]
ST: There was an anomaly that I could grab, and say, "Yes,
here's a demonstration that something funny is going on at least
2000-odd letters into the text. [It was] worth working on.
JM: And [Music] we're going to have to come back again, soon
enough after our break, because you're opening up a whole realm of
what the Kabbalah, the Hebrew Mystical Tradition says, that the
Hebrew language and the text, actually is, there are many, many
ST: Finding a pattern doesn't mean anything. Identifying
[one] does. That's what we'll do.
JM: Beneath the surface. So the story is beginning to unfold
for our listeners just as it unfolded for you and we'll be back
after these messages.
Jeffrey Mishlove: I'm Jeffrey Mishlove, host of Virtual
College, and I've been discussing with Stan Tenen, Director of Research
Meru Foundation, his explorations into some of the metaphysical,
mathematical, geometrical codes that are embedded in the very
structure of the ancient Hebrew language, and I think before we go
too much further, it would be useful to talk about the Kabbalistic
way of thinking of the language.
Stan Tenen: The Kabbalists claim that -- well, actually, [a]
traditional Jewish teaching [is] that there are four levels to the
Bible: there's the story that we all know, that's with
translations, there is something called Hints, which are additional
ways of understanding, there are Commentaries, and then there's a
Foundation Level, Yesod, the bottom level -- and that's the Letter
The teaching is, that somehow, at the Letter Level of the text, the
text of Genesis in particular, has something to do with the
creation of the universe. [It's] not just the story, "God created
the heaven and the earth," but it really is a template of creation.
That's the Kabbalists' claim. And the trouble is, if you read
Kabbalistic texts in translation,
they don't deliver on the claim.
They repeat the claim, they embroider the claim, they make all
kinds of outrageous statements, but they are reduced to mythology,
to poetry, to fantasy. And no one really takes them seriously,
because they've been so abused over the centuries.
So what's going to turn out here, is that by innocently and
directly examining just the sequence of letters, without reference
to the other teachings, I found a series of geometries which now
make sense of the Kabbalistic texts.
JM: Well, let me go back a little more, Stan, because it
seems to me that one of the things the Kabbalists are saying is
that every letter of the alphabet has a numerical value.
ST: More than that. Its name -- each letter has a name,
that name represents a function. I think the numerical value stuff
is actually part of the problem. People have focused on it being a
number, and you can use Arabic or Hebrew to write numbers --
JM: And there's a lot of Numerology based on it --
ST: Right, but this is not Numerology.
JM: I understand. But I'm trying to give people an
appreciation for the complexities of Kabbalah, and one of those is
that each of the letters is a word, each of the words is made up of
letters, each of those letters
is a word --
ST: And what's the first question that comes to mind when
you have something like that? The question is, It's fine to say
A-B-C-D-E-F-G. But in a Sacred Language, where each letter has a
name, why should "camel", the letter Gimel, come after Bet (the
letter "house"), come after "master"? What's the relationship? If
this is a system, then there ought to be an unfurlment, there ought
to be some reason why "A" is Mastery, and "B" is a House, and "C"
is a Camel and "D" is a Door, and "E" is a Window. What does that
mean? If it's random, if it's ad hoc,
then this is silliness.
But if there's a system, if
there's a reason why those letters are
in that sequence, of meanings, then you can do something with this,
you can build on it, you can work with it. One of the things we
found is that there is a
system. And that there's an underlying
meaning to the name of each letter. In fact, you can look at Hebrew
words as if they were acronyms.
Because, you can take a word and read it as a sentence, letter-name
by letter-name. When you do that, you get expanded meanings for
these translations, and that's one of the Kabbalistic principles.
JM: You've gone further because what you've shown is that
there is a geometric foundation, an underlying geometric form, in
fact, we're sitting here looking at it! Here in our studio,
ST: We'd better stop talking about it, cause this is the
JM: This is a beautiful shape, it could be many things. It
could be the core of an apple, it's a vortex, it could be like a
tornado, it could be like the flame of a candle, it's a --
ST: It's a harp --
JM: -- A hand, a harp, it's a very elegant shape. And what
you've discovered is that you could take this shape, hold it up to
the light, move it in different positions, and it will cast on a
wall, its shadow can [cast] the shape of all the letters of the
ST: That's true. But in and of itself, that would be
meaningless. Because one could take a coat-hanger, and bend a
couple of squiggles in it and make shadows that look like just
about any letter you wanted. The point is that this is a meaningful
form that is generated by pairing off the letters in the Hebrew
text of Genesis!
And it's meaningful because of what it represents. As it turns out,
it represents a model human hand. What you said is very nice: you
can hold this shape up and you can make shadows, but what tells you
how to hold it to make this particular letter? You couldn't figure
it out without a coordinate system.
Not only that, but I had to create a set of criteria and this had
to have a purpose. My idea was, that the meditational exercises
that Jewish and Christian and Muslim Tradition, were written out as
sequences of letters that represented different ways of viewing
this same form. But you had to turn the form over in the mind's
eye. In your mind, in your head.
If you couldn't visualize this thing easily --it's a difficult
thing to see -- and you don't know how to look at it -- even that's
a nice theory, but you couldn't do it.
It wasn't until several years later, because I was told by an
Orthodox Rabbi that it was the right thing to do to say the Morning
Prayers and such, because I was doing all this work -- I was
drinking the sweet water of the Hebrew town well, and I wasn't
supporting the well. --that I finally decided, even though I was
nervous about it, as a modern person, to put on tefillin --
phylacteries -- which are little boxes you put on your arm and on
your head -- which you put on with a leather strap.
And there's a teaching that you see letters in the leather strap on
JM: This is done during prayers,
ST: During Morning Prayers. For the first time, I put on
this leather strap, and I'm putting it on my hand, and it finally
dawned on me: this little abstract vortex shape that I had derived
from lining up the letters at the beginning of Genesis, was a model
And as soon as you put it on your hand, you can see it in your
mind's eye! You could reach behind yourself and pick up a
salt-shaker, an apple, or a fork on the table. You can tell the
difference. You can see what's in your hand.
So by putting it on your hand, immediately it becomes more than
just an ordinary alphabet, it becomes a Sacred Alphabet. Not only
for making gestures, which can be read, as it turns out, you can
even do that on the radio, it's so obvious, but also for reading
and writing and meditational dance in your mind's eye. A truly sacred Alphabet capable of transmitting an experiential
based on meditational exercises, and not just admonition.
JM: What we're getting to, from a metaphysical perspective,
here, I think, is the notion of self-reference.
Because when we
look out and see our own hand pointing back at us, it's a gesture
of self-reference, and that seems to be one of the fundamental
gestures behind the --
ST: You want to wake up from a dream, you look at your hand
because it gives you back your volition. Your hand is your
volition, you express your will by pointing with your hand. And
that's what we're going to talk about next. [Music]
JM: It's getting fascinating. I hope you're hanging out
there with us, everybody in Wisdomland, and that your neurons are
growing little spikes on the axons of dendrites,
ST: There's a website where you can see some of this, too,
when we get finished talking.
JM: So, Stan Tenen, my guest and Director of Research for the
Foundation, for those of you who are interested, Stan's website, if
you could check while you're listening to this program, is http://www.meru.org
and you'll see some of the geometrical patterns to which we've been
referring, on that website.
What we're getting into now is fascinating because we're talking
about a mathematical basis, we're talking about a kind of code that
exists in the letters of the Hebrew alphabet, we're talking about a
geometrical relationship, and we're talking now about the human
body and how gestures, hand movements, actually like the American
Indian Sign Language, but perhaps in a somewhat different sense,
that the various hand movements reflect both meaning and form the
shapes of the letters.
ST: Can I read a short quote? This was recently published in Nature by two researchers that
we have nothing to do with. This is
by Jana Iverson and Susan Goldin-Meadow, and I'm just going to read
JM: What issue?
ST: This November, 1998. But there's also an excellent
article in The American Scientist this
current month. [March-April
1999] I forget the author's name, but it's the Sigma Xi magazine,
JM:The American Scientist.
ST:"Why People Gesture as
they Speak," is the name of this
little abstract. It says that "congenitally blind speakers gesture
to each other despite their lack of a model, even when speaking to
other blind people." It points out,
"We find that 12 blind speakers
gestured as they spoke, despite the fact that they'd never seen
gesture. The blind group gestured at a rate not reliably different
from the sighted group, gave that same information using the same
range of gesture-forms.
"For example, speakers blind and
sighted tilted a V-shaped hand in
the air, as if pouring liquid from a glass, to indicate that a
liquid had been transferred from a different container."
If people go to our website, they're going to see that the Hebrew
letter "Dalet", which literally means "to pour out", which is seen
in outline in this model hand, when the model hand makes the same
gesture, as I just described.
This paper was written recently by two researchers who never heard
of what I'm doing. And I'm very grateful they did this. The point
is, that what's being claimed now is that before predecessors to
modern humans acquired spoken language, we had gesture language!
JM: Once again, if you're interested in contacting the Meru
Foundation, I encourage you to log onto their website, www.meru.org. There's just a wealth
of information there, beautiful
geometric patterns there. The geometry is really like the geometry
of flowers, or something.
ST: It's a living system.
JM: It's just gorgeous, the incredible art-work you've
created that explains these geometrical principles. And there are
many other articles.
ST: A number of essays and there's some introductory
JM: The other thing I certainly want to mention for those of
you who've been enjoying Virtual College here on Wisdom Radio,
check out our website, www.mishlove.com and there you will see who
our upcoming guests are, and you can check out their web-links in
advance of the broadcasts, and there's lot of other information,
including past guests and other institutional affiliations, etc.
"Mishlove" is my name.
Well, Stan, we've got just about a minute or so before the top of
the hour break. Is there a concluding thought you'd like to leave
our listeners with, before we end this hour?
ST: I think the most important thing to realize is that this
is in the center of every one of our faiths, just as the organs in
our body are different projections of the same common DNA, each of
the letters is a different projection of the same hand, the "Hand
of God," essentially, metaphorically speaking. And so, what we're
really looking at here is a way to understand the relationship
among the Western faiths, and a way to empower the whole system.
It's not just the alphabet. It goes much beyond that. This is an
ecological model that enables us to live together. Or at least
contributes to that.
JM: In effect, it's showing how some of the universal,
metaphysical principles are embodied, not just in the Hebrew
alphabet, but in many other Sacred Alphabets as well. [Music]
ST: Certainly the Greek and Arabic alphabets are in the same
system. And I think there's some relationship to Sanskrit, but
probably not in the shape of the letters.
JM: Stay tuned to Wisdom Radio and we'll be back at 6 and a
half minutes after the hour, with Stan Tenen. I'm Jeffrey
Jeffrey Mishlove: I'm back again. Stan Tenen is my guest. He
is the Director of Research for the Meru Foundation, and we've been
about some of the metaphysical, theoretical, geometrical,
mathematical and even biological bases to Sacred Language. We've
been focusing particularly on the Hebrew alphabet. However, the
principles that Stan has uncovered are applicable to other ancient
alphabets as well -- certainly, Arabic and Greek and very likely,
some of the others.
Stan Tenen: The idea is that the scientific knowledge of
these various peoples is usually the same. We all have the same technical knowledge. The
cultural embodiments are different, so
Judaism and Christianity and Islam are distinct Paths, and
obviously the Apollo Mysteries in the Greek Tradition were very
different, but the underlying geometries of the Apollo System and
the underlying geometries in Egypt and in Israel and later in
Christian and the Moslem world, and later in the Hermetic
Traditions, and in the Celtic world, all turn out to be the same.
That the models we found, these model hands, which express human
volition, the projection of our conscious will, which is clearly
subjective, into the objects of the physical world where others can
see it, is a fundamental process by which we express ourselves. We
use our hands to do that, in all cultures.
JM: And from a philosophical point of view, the great
Mystery of Life, is, how in the world is it that we combine Spirit
ST: And that's what this model expresses. The center tip of
the model, which forms around the thumb, is like the seed inside of
a fruit. And the hand itself is like a tree. And the palm and the
fingers are like the whole fruit.
And so, what you're doing is expressing -- I think it's Genesis
1:11 -- you're literally building a model of a "fruit tree yielding
fruit, whose seed is in itself," mapped back onto itself. And this
mapping is a natural process, and in fact it's this natural process
that gives meaning to the letters.
Earlier I was saying, why does a camel follow a house, follow a
master -- C, B, A. Why is [that] the order of the alphabet? It's
because the order of the meaning of the letters of alphabet follows
an embryonic unfurlment, from the singularity of a seed to the
wholeness of a fruit. And if you take this very bottom-line,
topologically minimum, operational set of meanings, and project
them into human experience, you get the idiomatic names of the
You get the names of the letters in the Hebrew Tradition, and in
the Arabic Tradition, the letters are named after the attributes of
Allah. But they correspond one-to-one, as you go [through the
alphabet]. And it looks like particular Arabic alphabets, particular Greek alphabets, particular Hebrew alphabets derive
this same form and this same basic principle.
And the principle is the Principle of the projection of our will
into the world, and that is broken up, is quantized by
articulations of our hand. Our different gestures are different
projections of our will, just as the different organs in our body
are different projections of the common DNA.
And so, this is a natural system,
that could be deduced anywhere.
What I'm saying is that it was used all over the world. And these
geometric models make sense of mystical texts -- Kabbalistic texts,
Sufi texts, the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismagistos -- it turns
out that you're describing the same geometry that you're finding in
Genesis. Much to the consternation of the ordinary translators, who
compete on the fine meanings of various words, but never identify the Emerald Tablet!
Well, this identifies the Emerald Tablet. It doesn't translate it.
It makes an identification.
JM: You're dealing now with the marriage of geometry and
linguistics, and that's two fields that rarely come together.
ST: That's right. Again, the actual basis of the set of
meanings is entirely geometric. There are 27 pointing directions
that mathematically correspond to the normals to the tangents of a
hypersphere. Basic ways you can navigate in hyperdimensional Space,
which is where consciousness is and where physics is -- and that
lays out the 27 explicit meanings.
But they're expressed in human embodiment by our gestures. So, say,
if a dolphin were to use this same system, they would use the same
27 meanings, but they don't have hands, a dolphin doesn't have
hands. They'd use their acoustic pressure-waves to express the same
set, and thus would, in principle, if I'm right, we ought to be
able to communicate with any self-aware creature whether they're
extra-terrestrials, or elephants, or dolphins.
JM: You mean, the fundamental principle of a seed unfolding
into a tree that creates more seeds, or of a human being making
reference to oneself by virtue of a hand-gesture, these principles
are so universal that even conscious creatures with other body
designs would understand them.
ST: And they're psychologically effective. You become aware.
You gain lucidity in your dreams when you look at your hand. It
reminds you of your volition. [The alphabet is] a full set of
articulations of our hand in our world.
I'm saying, that the sequence of letters in the Hebrew Bible brings
lucidity to this dream -- to our Waking
Dream. That's why it's part
of conscious evolution. This isn't a religious teaching only. This
is a Path that we can follow and learn from, and be able to include
all of -- Look at an apple, consider the Earth-plane to be the
equatorial cut through an apple. If you were to look across from
various diameters of that Earth-plane, they'd be diametrically
But if you spiral up around the stem,
and head down toward the
seed, go up over the outside of apple and spiral down around the
stem, all of those divergent points on the diameter of the
Earth-plane converge as they come back toward the Center.
This is a model that reconciles the One and the Many -- the seed
and the fruit -- Mind and World. The four-letter Name of God, and
the five-letter Name of God.
The academic scholars tell us the Bible texts were edited, because
there are two different Names of God used all over the place. "Lord" and "God". My work indicates that these
two words were used
precisely, because their distinction was understood; and that the
whole basis of the Teaching is reconciling the One and the Many -- "Atman" and "Brahman". Inside and Outside.
Consciousness and World.
The Four-letter Name of God, which is a singularity in the mind's
eye, and the Five-letter Name of God, which is the expanse of All
That Is in the universe. And that bridge between the Singularity
and Wholeness encompasses everything.
And that's why these forms, derived in the ancient world, overlay
our modern physics. They weren't doing physics. But our physicists
are taking the Everything and trying to find the One Big Bang. And
I'm saying that in principle, that's exactly what the ancients were
JM: It's a very ancient quest, it's just taken a new form,
as you say. How about the Sanskrit language, or the Chinese
ST: I don't know enough about it, but the basis of the
Sanskrit language is supposedly the Sri
Yantra, which is a
Creation mandala of 9 interlaced triangles that unfurl from a bindu point which is said to be toroidal into a hypersphere. If you think
about 9 triangles, that's 27 lines. Twenty-seven edges, three edges
for each triangle.
I'm claiming that even though the Sanskrit letters are only
determined tonally, by this Sri Yantra form, the basic idea of
unfurling from a torus into a hypersphere via 27 lines, is exactly
the same geometric model as was used to generate Hebrew, and later
Greek and Arabic. It's the same model at the meaning level even
though the shapes are different and the embodiment is different.
JM: When we talk about these geometric principles being
embedded in these languages, I'm assuming, Stan, that you're not
saying that the ancients did this consciously.
ST: Yes, I am. I think that there were two paths of
development of the alphabet. The one we all know and love, that's
in the textbooks, which is still being elaborated on today by some
very great scholars: Start with Egyptian pictogram-type
hieroglyphics, simplify them into Canaanite stick-letters, fix them
up a little, and eventually you get Greek and then Latin and then
And you can see how the letter "A" starts as a picture "Alpu", the
Bull of the Taurean Age, a V-shape with a crossbar, so it looks
like an ox-head with two horns? You flip it on its side, you get
the Aleph of the Canaanite tradition, you turn it completely
upside-down, and you get the "A" of Greek, and later Latin and
Those are hieroglyphics that have turned into pictograms. And they
could never be used for a monotheistic Tradition because they're
all pictures of Pagan idols. "Alpu" is the Bull of the Taurean
no Rabbi worth his salt is going to look at that! Those pictograms
The meaning-set was kept. But you know, you can't worship a slave.
Nobody worships their own slave unless they're an idiot. Well, our
hands are our slaves. And therefore, taking an image of a hand
making a gesture with the same meaning as the original letter
replaces the Pagan image with a non-idolatrous image, and enables
you to create this meaning-system.
What I'm saying is that this was a formal system that was devised
separate from the phonetic system, and later became merged with it.
And that accounts for the historical development. That [in] the
normal phonetic alphabets, each letter points to a sound. In this
system, each letter points to a gesture that has a feeling
associated with it. And the sequence of feelings makes up a
JM: Is there any historical record to corroborate that a
group of scribes or Rabbis or scholars got together to create an
ST: Yes and No. It depends on how you read the history.
Obviously, conventional reading of the history doesn't give you
this. But there are many clues that this is what's going on. I'll
give you a perfect example. I have a short quote here. It's on a
slightly different topic, but it makes the point.
If you read these things in their simple form, you don't get this.
If you go deeper, you do. And the simple form is the obvious one
that people have defaulted to. The way you make this model is to
take a circle and a line, and pull it up into three dimensions. And
that makes this hand-shape which then makes all the letters
Now here's a traditional quote from a traditional source. This is
from "The Origin of Letters and Numerals According to the Sepher
Yetzirah," by Phineas Mordell. It was written in 1914, it's still
available from Sam Weiser, and it says:
"We must conclude that the so-called
Arabic numerals and the
alphabet originated from 10 digits and zero, or rather, from two
symbols: the "one" and the "zero", the stroke and the circle. L. D.
Nelme, in his essay on the origin of the letters, shows us that all
elementary characters or letters derive their forms from the line
and the circle. As I understand the Sepher Yetzirah, it also holds
that all written characters originated from a line and a circle.
But from a line that was originally a symbol for unity, and a
circle which was originally a symbol for zero."
Well, the common meaning of that, which everyone takes to be the
meaning, is that you could make letter-shapes from line-segments
that are straight and curved. That's what he's saying, a line and a
circle. That's how everyone translates that.
I say, if you go deeper, you find that you can take a circle and a
line, a straight edge and a compass, if you will, and you square
the circle philosophically -- you can't do it geometrically -- with
a straight edge and a compass, by pulling a line and a circle into
3-D, to form a hand, and from that hand, that ONE hand, you get ALL
Much more interesting than the trivial solution.
JM: You used a few phrases or terms that our listeners may
not be familiar with? You used the term Sepher
ST: That's the name of a book. It's called "The Book of
Formation". It's a Kabbalistic text. Its title is "Book of
Formation," and everyone agrees it's all about the letters. But,
you know, it never discusses the form of the letters, in modern
translations! You plug these geometries into the text, identify
these geometric models that come from lining up the letters in
Genesis [with] nouns used in the SepherYetzirah and instead of
getting what you get now, which skirts the issue of the form of the
letters, you get the form of the
It's one test of a good model -- Does it work?
JM: And the Sepher Yetzirah was considered one of the core
texts of the Kabbalist Tradition.
ST: Jewish tradition says it was originally discovered by
Abraham. It was originally written down by Rabbi Akiba . The
academic scholars believe it was written down somewhat more
recently. My work indicates that it must be ancient, and that it
must go back in time to the original understanding of the letters
because otherwise you wouldn't get this result.
There is much other evidence. For instance, we all have this
picture of Charlton Heston coming down, carrying the Tablets in
each hand, these giant Tablets, but that's not what the Torah text
says. The word in Hebrew is :"b'yah-do": "in his hand." It's ONE
hand. The text, the Torah, the Tablets, are in ONE hand. [Music] Or
ON one hand. And that's what I'm saying.
ST: "A Tree of Life for those who grasp it."
JM: Now we're getting more into the esoteric understanding
of these things, and of course there are many Mysteries. But more
shall be revealed.
ST: More shall be revealed.
JM: We'll be back with Stan Tenen, Director of Research for the
Foundation, after these messages from Wisdom Radio. I'm your host,
Jeffrey Mishlove: Stan, at an earlier segment, you talked
about the mystery of the two Names of God, in Hebrew, one is
Ado-nai, and the other is Elo-henu or Elo-him.
Stan Tenen: Yes. I won't pronounce them, but that's
basically [correct], the first one Ado and then noy is the
Tetragrammaton, the Name-of-Four-Letters.
JM: That's right, that's not really how it's spelled in
Hebrew at all.
ST: No, it's spelled Yod-He-Vov-He, which leads to other
JM: Like "Jehovah". That would be the basis of --
ST: ....... the vowels ....... So that's where that comes
from. Orthodox Jews say "Hashem", the Name, when they mean that.
That word is translated "Lord". And that's going to lead us to some
JM: In the Jewish Tradition, it is considered a sacred Name,
not to be pronounced.
ST: That's right.
JM: Except, as I understand it, once on Yom Kippur, by the
High Priest in the Temple,
ST: Something like that, that hasn't happened for many
centuries, and in fact, I have a theory that it wasn't really the
pronunciation of the Name that they cared about. The word "Name"
("Shem"), if you vowelize it differently, also means "There," as in
"Place." It's the place of the
meditation that was lost. Not the
verbalization of the Name.
The other Name which is pronounced with an "H" -- Elo and then Him,
I'll say "Elokim" -- is the "Five-Letter-Name." It's the one that
appears in Genesis. That refers to the expanse of All-There-Is.
JM: It's a plural. It really could --
ST: Well, it's not a plural. It has a plural ending. The Yud
final-Mem ending becomes the masculine-plural later in the text.
But Yud-Mem has a meaning by itself! You can look it up in the
Dictionary. That's the word for "sea", an ocean, an expanse.
Yud-Mem means "a great expanse."
The God-name "Elokim" really means the "Expansive God".
The Four-Letter Name is the extent of God. Now those are very
important. First, Judaism claims that those two are the same. I'm
saying, the Abrahamic discovery was not that there was a God, but
rather that the Singularity in Meditation, and the Expanse of
All-There-Is in existence, are the same thing. That's what the two
JM: Sounds very much like the "key" inside of Hinduism.
ST: I think it's very close.
JM: That "Atman" is "Brahman".
ST: That's right. And I would go so far as to say that
additional research might demonstrate that the Abramic traditions
and the Brahmic traditions are
really more closely related than has
been previously suspected. And that this is one way to show that.
In any event, the model that makes this hand, the geometry that
makes the hand is a geometry that's based on taking the credo of
Judaism, the so-called "Sh'ma" ("Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God,
the Lord is One!") and making an algebraic equation out of it,
setting the Lord as Radial Extent,
and God as Angular Expanse.
setting them equal to One.
"r x theta = 1" is the equation for the Reciprocal or Hyperbolic
spiral. It generates a spiral that looks like the spiral under the
Eye of Horus. Not a logarithmic spiral. Not a Golden Mean spiral.
They're too self-similar. We're looking for the most asymmetrical
JM: I'm sorry that we can't present these on a computer
screen right now, but people can log onto your website to see this.
It's like as you say, the Eye of Horus.
ST: Yes. Under the Eye of Horus there is a spiral that
starts out straight, and then curls up. Not a log or an Archimedean
or a common spiral. This one is the most asymmetrical -- it's got a
straight part like a line, a circling part like a circle. Again,
like the quote I read, a line and a circle making all the letters.
It metaphorically, philosophically squares the circle by connecting
the inner Singularity of consciousness with the outer expanse of
We are what squares the
circle. The sequence of letters in the text
is the meditation that connects inside with outside, just as surely
as Pi connects a radius and a circumference, and truly squares the
circle. That's the metaphor they're reaching for.
If you look at the Names, the Four-Letter Name is translated
"Lord", based on a word in Hebrew, "adin", which means "a
pedestal". The Lord sits high up on a pedestal, radially very high
and far away. The "Elokim" Name is an Expanse -- All the
You know where that shows up (very, very important!) Roger
Penrose's new book, "The Emperor's New Mind," has a section in it
where he describes where it is that the vegetable kingdom gets its
self-organizing information to become alive.
JM: Just let me, for benefit of our listeners, state that
Roger Penrose is a scholar in the theory of Relativity,
ST: -- A famous physicist --
JM: Physicist, based at, was it Cambridge University?
ST: Oxford, maybe, I don't know,
JM: Or Oxford, in England, and his book "The Emperor's New
Mind" is regarded as one of the classic books, approaching the
physics of consciousness, and it's one of the densest and most
ST: He's got others that follow, that are even denser. But
he recapitulates something that's well known, and if I have a
moment to explain it, you'll see why this is such a beautiful
model. He points out that the only reason that there's enough
information for there to be self-organization of Life is because
the sun, a hot, bright point in the sky, puts out visible photons
which the plants swallow, and use to gather information from, and
then they radiate back out [from] the planet, infra-red photons to
a dark sky.
Now if the sun weren't brighter than the sky, you couldn't do that.
If the sky were all bright like the sun, you couldn't re-radiate
back the infra-red photons. It's because of the contrast between
the bright, hot sun, and the cold, dark sky all around, that you
can gain information from the difference in light taken in vs. the
light radiated out.
I'm saying, extend that metaphor. Instead of a pretty, fairly hot,
bright sun, in a generally cold, dark sky, let's make a
hyper-model, a model that might account for our self-awareness, not
just our self-organization. Let's hypothesize an Utter Singularity
in consciousness. An Infinitely hot, bright spot against an Utterly
cold, dark sky.
That's the Four-Letter Name against
the Five-Letter Name.
That's why the Four-Letter Name is the attractor of consciousness,
in the mind's eye, against the background of the Earth-plane of
All-That-Is. And that's what I'm saying is the basis of the
Kabbalistic Tradition, and later the Christian and Moslem Teachings
as well. And this is a fundamental, definition-based Teaching.
It doesn't say that my God is the One God because it's my God, and
is a "jealous" God in the ordinary sense. This is a One God that's
jealous in the same sense that there's
only one number "Pi" that's
intrinsic to the Universe.
We're making a definition of
singularity, and a definition of
wholeness, and we're spanning them with a metaphoric hand.
JM: Come back to -- Are you saying that the number "Pi" is a
ST: Yes! There's no other number like "Pi"! [Music] It's the
only relationship between a radius and a circumference. This is the
One God, not because Jews or Christians or Moslems say so, it's
because it's defined that
way. And that definition turns out to be
functional. And that's what brings the Traditions alive!
JM: We'll be back with Stan Tenen, Director of Research for the
Foundation, after these messages.
Jeffrey Mishlove: Stan, right before the break, we were talking
as being a "jealous number".
Stan Tenen: That's right. To mathematicians, Pi is a jealous
because it's a definitional number. It's intrinsic. Once you
investigate the relationship between a radius and a circumference,
Pi is not making some theological claim to be special, it's a
The model I'm suggesting is definitional. It turns out to have
relationships to theology and religions because it's a very
effective definition. But you start with a definition. And the
definition is simply to unify Singularity and Wholeness, in every
possible way. Whether it's inside the singularity of consciousness
and [outside] the wholeness of the world, whether it's the
principle of the One and the Many, whether it's, in Kabbalistic
metaphor, the Light in the Meeting Tent, the Light is the One, the
Tent is the diversity of the world.
These metaphors can also be turned around. You can also take it the
other way. There's a vestment -- I can't do this on the radio --
But the idea [is] that we make
metaphor. And the geometry tells us
what the possibilities and relationships are.
This is all deducible. I want to read you another quote, which is
an unusual quote, but it's very important to what I'm saying,
because it's could have been done in the ancient world, that could
have been the basis for all of this.
The first letter of the Hebrew Bible is the letter "Bet". "Bet" is
a house. Except that these really aren't nouns, they're verbs. So
it's what a house does. A house distinguishes inside from outside.
These are the words of topologist, Spencer-Brown, writing in his
book "The Laws of Form", where he specifies a "mark of distinction"
that archetypally distinguishes inside from outside. And he says,
"The theme of this book is the Universe
comes into being when a
space is severed or taken apart. The skin of a living organism cuts
off an outside from an inside. [ST: Just like our skin incarnates us.] So does the
circumference of a circle in a plane. By tracing the way we
represent such a severance, we can begin to reconstruct, with an
accuracy and coverage that appear almost uncanny, the basic forms
underlying linguistic, mathematical, physical and biological
science, and we can begin to see how the familiar laws of our own
experience follow inexorably from the original act of severance.
"Although all forms and thus all
universes are possible, and any
particular form is mutable, it becomes evident that the laws
relating such forms are the same in any universe. It is this
sameness, the idea that we can find a reality independent of how
the Universe actually appears, that lends such fascination to the
study of mathematics."
Looking at relationships instead of things is exactly what the
religious traditions mean when they say, Don't look at idols. God
isn't a thing, God's a process. Hebrew words aren't nouns, they're
verbs. Idols are different, they're mutable, they're changeable,
you could make [them] anything. But the relationships between
things, Spencer-Brown is telling us, are always the same. And if
you start with "primary distinction," you can unfurl all formal
logic, and the unfurlment is inexorable.
You start the Hebrew Bible with the letter "Bet". And you unfurl it
this way, you're going to get All-There-Is.
JM: We're talking about the Creation -- "In the beginning
..." It begins with a "Bet". The very first aspect of a Creation is
the idea that something emerges out of nothing.
ST: It's simpler than that. A child comes from within the
womb to the outside world. Embryology proceeds by replication and
invagination. Inversion. Inside to Outside.
ST: Exactly. What I'm saying is that the stories in Genesis
are at a story-level, but that at a deeper level, it really is
Creation. This is the distinction between the objective and the
subjective, that occurs at the Garden of Eden.
JM: What do you mean? The Garden of Eden, the objective and
ST: We become self-aware. We become ashamed. We have a skin,
we incarnate. And so, what was initially all objective if we were
in constant contact with the All-That-Is, we become cut off. There
becomes a distinction between the subjective and the objective, in
the Garden of Eden. That's a traditional Rabbinic teaching, by the
If we look at this model hand, we're told in the Bible that the
Tabernacle is made of "gold and silver and brass." If we look at
this hand, we find it has a golden center, like a seed.
JM: Hold on. You've lost me. Golden center, like a seed?
ST: If you look at it, like a natural --
JM: When you say "this hand",
ST: The hand that we've found, that makes the letters, that
we pull out of an idealized fruit,
JM: It's a geometrical shape --
ST: It's a geometrical form --
JM: -- That you and I are looking at right now,
ST: -- That's right. But if you picture a fruit, in the
middle of an apple there's a star of seeds, a golden center. If you
break an apple in half and consider it an Above and Below
hemisphere, it's like Hamlet's Mill.
JM: Wait, Stan. What is "Hamlet's Mill"?
ST: Hamlet's Mill is a metaphor for the universe that was
discussed in a book by that name, by two authors whose names I
don't remember right now,
ST: That's right. And Von Dechend?
JM: I'm not sure.
ST: Another synthesis of many teachings from the ancient
world which comes down to looking at two millstones with a grinding
surface between them, which you drop seed, grain, down the middle
of, well, think of an apple. Sliced horizontally. If you were to
drop seed down the stem until you reached the middle, you'd have
the same model. It's a golden seed down the middle.
JM: Why "golden"?
ST: Because grain is associated with gold and the model is
also a model of the sun. In the sky. As I was just talking about.
There's this model the plant reaches for: the hot sun against the
black sky. Same model.
JM: What you're suggesting here is that there're kind of
geometrical, metaphysical principles that are at the basis --
ST: Geometrical metaphor --
JM: -- Not only of language, but ecology.
ST: Exactly. I'm saying that all the mythology of the
Western World can be mapped onto this geometry in Genesis, and that
the distinction between Consciousness and Physics, between inside
and outside, is what Genesis is really about, and only on the
simple story level does it become the story we know.
And I'm saying that if you look at the basic components: a seed, a
tree that grows from the seed, and the fruit that grows from the
tree, you're looking at a module of the whole cycle of Life, one
cycle. I'm saying -- to take this to the sociological level -- the
seed is the Jewish Covenant, the Torah, the Law, clear thinking,
conceptualization, the Tree.
The cross is the Christian Covenant, work, passion, compassion,
dharma, carrying things.
And Islam is "the fruit of Islam". And together they form a whole
system. And when they recognize and respect each other, then the
System comes to life because the organs in the body politic form
one whole organism. [Music]
JM: Stan Tenen, Director of Research for the Meru Foundation,
deeper into the metaphysical principles that unify diversity, and
we'll be back again after these messages.
Jeffrey Mishlove: Stan Tenen, at the beginning of the first
hour of this program, nearly two hours ago, you told a story about
what motivated you to begin your explorations into the geometrical
dimensions of the Sacred Traditions, sacred alphabets in
particular, and that story had to do with being at the wall in
Jerusalem, the Wailing Wall, shortly after the six-day war in 1967,
and feeling the tension amongst the Jews and Arabs and the
Christians and wanting to do something to heal the three splits in
the Abrahamic Traditions.
Now you've come up with a metaphor of the seed, the tree, and
Stan Tenen: What I've found, and it makes sense if you think
about it, and again, based on this metaphor of the organs in our
body. My heart and my liver "believe in" different religions. They
do different things. They follow different paths. The cells don't
look the same. If they got in each others' organs, they'd either
hurt the organ or they wouldn't survive.
And yet, if they go inside, if you go deep in the liver, [if] you
go within each cell, you find the same DNA. You find [the same DNA
in] each cell in the heart. If you go deep into each of these
traditions, if I'm right, you're going to find the same geometric
Because, as one approaches the center, as one goes deep within, all
the Paths converge. And so, I'm not a Jewish person telling
Christians or Moslems what to believe. I'm saying, each of us
should go within our own Traditions, and find out what our own
teachers are saying.
And I'm confident, if we do that, we're going to find that this is
a whole System, that the Jewish Path is concentrating mainly on the
Law, and Christian Path is primarily concentrated on Good Works,
and the Islamic Path is letting go, submitting to Allah, which is
what a fruit does. When it matures, it lets go of its tree. And
when fruit reaches the ground, it opens and becomes the fertile
soil for the next generation to grow from.
So I'm saying, if this model is correct, and it's not a model I
derive from a faith or traditional Path, it's a model I derive from
examining the document for itself, letter by letter. Not the story.
Not each individual religious teaching. But the actual sequence of
letters that all three Western faiths appreciate, the text of
That common Path can show Christians and Jews and Moslems what
their place is, how they can contribute, and how there can be
enough spiritual room, even if there's very little physical room.
And I'm predicting flat out, that if these ideas are understood and
appreciated, maybe not in our time, maybe at some future time, it's
the Moslems who will help to rebuild the Temple. Voluntarily.
Because the Moslem world will see itself as being the hosts, the
good custodians and the Jewish world will see itself as carrying
the seed, of not being a world power but being a mind-power. And
the Christian world will build a bridge and a relationship. And
each will contribute with respect for the others, and then the
System comes to life and everyone benefits. There's enough room for
all of us.
So this is a demonstration of this set of models, in an attempt to
bring them to credibility, so they can be made use of.
JM: It almost sounds a little bit like a closed system, with
these three religions. What about the other world religions?
ST: The same holds for the relationship between East and
West. I said earlier that the Abrahamic and the Brahmic seem to be
much closer than we suspect. The Brahmic have gone within, have
kept the Meditations. The Abrahamic have gone out to the world.
That's the difference between the Eastern and the Western worlds
even today: the Western World is outgoing and conquering,
conquering Nature. And the Eastern Traditions go in to the
spiritual Traditions, go deep for their faiths. Bringing those two
halves together is part of the same model. It's a Yin-Yang, and
each of the Yins and Yangs has three parts itself.
Also, the indigenous Traditions come into this. There is no people
that doesn't dance around the campfire of a tripod of sticks. The
basic model that I found in Genesis is a Light in the Meeting Tent,
a tetrahedron with a vortex. The tetrahedron is the Tai Chi
opening, when you rotate your arms across each other (which you
can't see on the radio).
And the Light is this hand that invigorates the vessel, that brings
it to life. And all of the faiths make use of this same model, they
all have an "Eternal Flame" in front of the altar, the "Green Flame
of Islam," they all go back to the same Abrahamic principles, and
remember I said earlier also, that the supposed author of the
Sepher Yetzirah, the source-book on the alphabet, is Abraham.
So how far back does this go? It goes back to Abraham, at least in
principle. It goes back to the common root. And if we go to that
place, we can find out how we fit together. If we want to find how
Jews and Christians can get along, go back to the time when there
wasn't any distinction, and see how the early Christians got along.
JM: What you've said earlier, at least in a mythological
sense, go back prior to the Tower of Babel.
ST: Yes. The most recent research indicates that gesture
language preceded spoken language. You can use these gestures today
as an international alphabetic language in everybody's alphabet,
because it's [everyone's] gestures. It doesn't matter if you're from
Asia, [or if] you're from Africa, from North America, or from
Australia. If you put your hands to your mouth in a shouting
gesture, everyone knows that [means "shout"].
If you point [with] your arms [outstretched], extend them straight
out in front of you like you're sleep-walking, everyone knows that
means "to project." And if you do that, you see dangling from your
hand the Hebrew letter whose name is "spear" or "arrow" or
"projectile". And the same would be true in Aborigine faiths, in
Amerindian faiths, in Eastern faiths, in Western faiths.
JM: So, in the field of linguistics, we have Noam Chomsky,
who's from your home town of Boston, who developed the idea of a
universal grammar. He's had an enormous impact, and of course he's
looking at grammar very differently from you --
ST: Very differently,
JM: But still the idea of a universal grammar in your case
not based on the mathematical analysis of sentence-structure, but
based on a somewhat different kind of geometrical analysis of --
ST: People who speak with hand-gestures have been shown to
develop their language in the same way as people who speak with
speech, and develop very similar grammars. And in fact people from
different cultures with different sign languages find that they can
teach each other a common sign language very quickly. Based on
these innate grammars. These innate gestures.
This is natural. My work is not the same as Chomsky's, but it's
certainly not in conflict.
JM: No, it would seem to be very much in the same --
ST: I want to tell people, I'm not saying "I'm right and
you're wrong!" This is saying, "You've all been right, and on this
level we can show it!"
JM: We've been talking to Stan Tenen, Director of Research for
Foundation. We're going to have some messages again, from Wisdom
Network. After we come back, we'll give out Stan's website and some
other contact information, so stay with us.
JM: And if you'd like to contact Stan Tenen and the Meru
Foundation directly, you can write to them at P. O. Box 503,
Sharon, Massachusetts 02067. Their website is, once again, www.meru.org. And if you don't have
access to the Web, you can call
their toll-free number, 1 (888) 422-MERU. That's 1 (888) 422-MERU.
After giving out all that information, I'm a little hesitant to
give out my own website on top of it all, it almost seems like URL
overload. But here it is: It's MISHLOVE.COM. www.mishlove.com.
It's been a great pleasure being with you for these two hours,
Stan. I've never seen you so animated.
ST: Thank you, that was entirely due to your asking the
right questions and keeping this in line. I really appreciate the
opportunity, and anyone who wants further information can get in
touch with us. It is a very beautiful, elegant System, and it needs
to be known.
JM: I know you're very passionate about this work and it has
the potential to move in many different directions. The day will
come, I think, when people will be dancing the Dance of the
ST: Absolutely. Thank you.
JM: Well, thank you and your lovely wife, Levanah, for
coming here to California to be with us on Wisdom Radio. Tune in
again, every weekday evening, 8 PM, Pacific Time, 11 PM, Eastern
Time, for Virtual College. [Music]